So many designers are straddling the fence between an interior design side hustle and a full-time career. Our season one finale of The Interior Collective features Beth Diana Smith discussing her career transition and lessons learned along the way.
Beth Diana Smith spent more than a decade working in accounting and finance with a hard earned Bachelor's degree in Business and a Master's degree in Accounting. Later, Beth earned a degree from the New York School of Interior Design while taking night classes working around her day job. Her interior design career started as a side hustle before she left accounting to start Beth Diana Smith Interior Design.
Her designs use expertly curated art, layered textured, bold patterns, and colors to create uniquely sophisticated, layered and luxurious residential designs. Beth has been on NBC and HGTV, and you've seen her work featured in various outlets, including House Beautiful, Elle Decor, Real Simple, Lonny Magazine, Domino, The Wall Street Journal, and the Business of Home.
In this episode, Beth and I discuss:
The career path into interior design
How a background in corporate shapes her business structure
When she knew it was the right timing to design full-time
Beth's signature use of color which she credits to design school
Finding the courage to make a career change
An excerpt of my conversation with Beth Diana Smith:
How did the initial decision to start taking night classes launch because your background has not always been design.
BDS: It has not. So I had started a new company in about 2008, I believe. I started a new corporate finance job, and you know, I had a very big pay jump. I was 28 at the time, but I had purchased my home when I was 23. So as I got closer to 30, I realized that I was really ready to get rid of all the stuff I bought from like that early 2000s Ikea. So I was like, I wanna, get rid of this, but I'm a really technical learner. Okay, well let me do research there. Like there's these new things and they're called blogs, and I'm going to check out publications. And I started doing all this research, and I was like, oh, this is actually really, really interesting.
I'm super, super organized in almost an annoying kind of way. So I actually started off as a professional organizer. Right? So as I started working on my home and then starting to do things in other people's homes, I was just like, you know what? I really kinda like this design thing over here, but I don't have a creative brain. So I don't know how this is going to work. Oh, I like technical education. I'm just going to look at some design schools because to do this as a side hustle, I want to be official. The next thing I knew, I was enrolling at the New York School of Interior Design, and I was going to school nights and weekends after my corporate job.
"I consider myself to be an eclectic maximalist with a heavy hand in bohemian style."
- Beth Diana Smith
So at this time when you were taking the single class, you thought that interior design was going to be a side hustle, correct?
BDS: It was gonna be a side hustle. You know, I was gonna do it for fun as my downtime because my corporate job was, you know, corporate finance has a lot of long hours. It can be very stressful. So I was just like, this will be what I'll do on my downtime. And I was just like, oh, check another ignorant mark off on my spreadsheet of life. I didn't know any better.
This is a controversial subject, but not all interior designers have interior design-specific degrees. What pushed you to decide that going through that program was necessary when you were already an extremely educated and studied person?
BDS: Because I am a firm believer in technical education. I mean, I don't wanna say I like school, but I like school. It's also the best way that I learn. For me to feel comfortable, I need to feel like I know all the things. I need to understand the who, the what, the where, the why, and someone to walk me through all the hows. And that's always how I've learned. I'm very hands-on. But not everyone is like that. There are some amazing designers who don't have an interior design degree, and there are a lot of designers who are a much better designer than I am who don't have an interior design degree.
I think it's just based off of how we learn and how much time we're putting in. And because I knew for me, at that time, I had weighed all the options. And I said if I wanna be able to do my own construction drawings and I wanna be able to know the history of interior design, I have to go to school for this.
Show Notes
Mentioned in the episode:
Client Email Templates (code PODCAST20 to save)
Client Process Bundles (code PODCAST20 to save)
Facebook Groups mentioned:
What They Don't Teach You In Design School
Design-ER Therapy
Interior Design Business Strategies
Thanks for reading an excerpt of The Interior Collective Season 1, Episode 12: Transitioning from Side-Gig to Opening Your Own Firm featuring Beth Diana Smith. You can listen to our episode on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or access the full episode transcription below. You can follow Beth on Instagram or visit her portfolio for the latest reveals of her work.
PORTFOLIO CREDITS:
Design by Beth Diana Smith Interior Design, Photography by Mike Van Tassell + Carmel Fasano Brantley
If you're enjoying season one of The Interior Collective podcast, we’d be so appreciative if you'd take a moment to share, subscribe, and leave us a review. Ratings help us reach a wider audience as we provide insight and inspiration to the entire design community. Your support means the world.
Anastasia Casey 00:00:02 Hi, this is The Interior Collective, a podcast for the business of beautiful living presented by IDCO Studio. And I'm Anastasia Casey. There are so many interior designers straddling the fence between side hustle and full time. Today's episode of the Interior Collective is diving deep into the transition to opening your own design firm with Beth Diana Smith. We'll chat candidly about her decision to attend design school while still working full time in corporate finance. If you are considering making the jump into starting your own business or ready to grow past solopreneur, stay tuned. Beth Diana Smith spent more than a decade working in accounting and finance with a hard earned bachelor's degree in business and a master's degree in accounting. Later, Beth earned a degree from the New York School of Interior Design while taking night classes working around her day job. Her interior design career started as a side hustle before she left accounting to start Beth Diana Smith Interior Design. Her corporate background, coupled with her innate creativity serve her well as the principal of her full service firm, Beth brings collected meets refined style and unparalleled efficiency to a variety of project types in New Jersey, New York, and beyond.
Anastasia Casey 00:01:13 Her designs use expertly curated art, layered textured, bold patterns, and colors to create uniquely sophisticated, layered and luxurious residential designs. Beth has been on NBC and HGTV, and you've seen her work featured in various outlets, including House Beautiful, Elle Decor, Real Simple, Lonny Magazine, Domino, The Wall Street Journal, and the Business of Home. Hello and welcome Beth. I am so excited to be ending my workday with you today, and we are so honored to have you on The Interior Collective.
Beth Diana Smith 00:01:46 Oh, thank you. The pleasure is all mine
Anastasia Casey 00:01:49 To kick things off for anybody who's been living under rock and is not already familiar with your work. Describe to us what you would define your signature style as
Beth Diana Smith 00:02:02 I consider myself to be an eclectic maximalist with a heavy hand in bohemian style.
Anastasia Casey 00:02:12 Oh, I love that. When you're reviewing and drooling over best work, I think just the way Beth incorporates color in a way that feels so warm and inviting and very high end is just such a gift that she has. And it's so refreshing as we're looking through, you know, sometimes designs start to look very similar over and over again, and you are just a breath of fresh air and I'm so excited to be able to showcase your portfolio. We'll have access to all of her portfolio images in the show notes. So you can go ahead and look there and we'll also have everything linked to her Instagram, so you can follow along as well. Let's back it up. How did the initial design to start taking night classes launch because your background has not always been design.
Beth Diana Smith 00:03:07 It has not. So I had started a new company in about 2000, February, first of 2008 believe. I started a new corporate finance job and I was, you know, I had a very big pay jump. I had purchased, I was 28 at the time, but I had purchased my home when I was 23. So as I got closer to 30, I realized that I was really ready to get rid of all the stuff I bought from like that early two thousands Ikea. And we all remember early two thousands Ikea <laugh>. So I was like, I wanna, I wanna get rid of this, but I'm a really technical learner. So I'm like, okay, well let me do research there. Like there's these new things and they're called blogs and I'm going to check out publications. And I started doing all this research and I was like, oh, this is actually really really interesting.
Beth Diana Smith 00:04:10 I'm super, super organized in almost an annoying kind of way. So I actually started off as a professional organizer. Right? So as I started working on my home and then starting to do things in other people's homes, I was just like, you know what? I really kinda like this design thing over here, but I don't have a creative brain. So I don’t know how this is going to work. Oh, I like technical education. I'm just going to look at some design schools because I'm going to do this as a side hustle. I wanna be official. Next thing I knew I was enrolling at the New York School of Interior Design and I was going to school nights and weekends after my corporate job.
Anastasia Casey 00:04:57 And this is after you already have a master's degree in accounting and you're like, let's just keep going to school. Let's just keep going.
Beth Diana Smith 00:05:04 <laugh> Yes, it was a bit of a painful decision cause I wasn't sure about it. So I started off, like I was gonna get my feet wet and I said, I'm gonna just take one little mini class that they had. That was only like a, I wanna say it was like maybe a two or four week course. You can go a couple of nights a week and we give you like this broad overview of interior design. And I said, oh, okay, I'll get my feet wet. I'm gonna take one class. And it was, I think it was called introduction to color. And I was like, this is not what I thought it was going to be like. When I look back at it now what my view of interior design was, was very, very ignorant <laugh> but there was so much more to it. So that color class, I'm glad I took it by itself because I'd go into that class a night or two a week. And then on the weekends I would be doing homework, mixing color, understanding color, you know, learning the difference between a tint and a shade and how to mix my colors and understanding how your eye reads color. And I was just like, where am I? Mind blown.
Anastasia Casey 00:06:21 Okay that is so funny. This is such a plug for this class because Gail Davis who I chatted with earlier, she literally hyped up the same color class from the same school. So I'm like, apparently everybody needs to go take this class
Beth Diana Smith 00:06:40 Yes.
Anastasia Casey 00:06:41 because she had the same reaction and same experience. And said that was a game changing life altering class for her.
Beth Diana Smith 00:06:48 That is so funny. Yes, because Gale, she also lives in New Jersey. Also went to New York School of Interior Design, but I met her after we had, I think we had both already graduated before I even met Gail and I met her inside the bathroom inside of the D and D building. I just saw her and I was like, hi, I'm Beth <laugh>. That was so random. But yes, it was an amazing eye opening class and that's my very first class. And that was the only class I think I took by itself for a semester. It had such a big impact on me and how I view how color makes you feel and what color can do. And it just gave me a whole new appreciation.
Anastasia Casey 00:07:42 Oh, I'm like, okay, I'm signing up and taking the class. <laugh>
Beth Diana Smith 00:07:46 Do it. Do it.
Anastasia Casey 00:07:47 I mean, I went to art school and I had a color theory class, but it sounds like this is on another level. So at this time when you were taking the single class, you still, at this point, thought that interior design was going to be a side hustle, correct.
Beth Diana Smith 00:08:01 It was gonna be a side hustle. You know, I was gonna do it for fun as like my downtime because my corporate job was, you know, corporate finances, a lot of long hours. It can be very stressful. So I was just like, this will be what I'll do on my downtime. And I was just like, oh, check another ignorant mark off on my spreadsheet of life. <laugh> I didn't know any better.
Anastasia Casey 00:08:31 So at what point in attending classes, so you took that first one, you took that class alone that semester. Did you sign back up for the next semester? Like at what point did you pivot to like, you're going to school for this now?
Beth Diana Smith 00:08:46 So I, okay. So I started the class January of 2011. The class ended mid May and then I was planning on taking a class during the summer, but then the end of May, my mother passed away. I had to, I think I was like, my family isn't from here, my family's Grenadian. So it was figuring out the funeral arrangements, bringing her back to Grenada. It just conflicted when I had to start class. So I sent NYSID an email, like, look, I can't, I can't do it. Can you please give me my money back for this semester? And I'll see you guys in the fall. So when fall came I was now the only person I had to be responsible for was myself. So I said, oh, well now I can take two classes. I could take one class during the week at night and I can take another class, you know, on the weekends. And that's when I ended up doing
Anastasia Casey 00:09:54 Wow. This is a controversial subject. <laugh>, <laugh> not all interior designers have interior design specific degrees. And while legally, a very state to state and some states absolutely require it. The majority of states in the United States actually don't, what pushed you to decide that getting that degree and going through that program was necessary when you were already an extremely educated and studied person?
Beth Diana Smith 00:10:34 Because I am a firm believer in technical education. I mean, I don't wanna say I like school, but I like school. It's also the best way that I learn. For me to feel comfortable, I need to feel like I know all the things. I need to understand the who, the what, the where, the why, and someone to walk me through all the hows. And that's always how I've learned. I'm very, very on, sorry, hands on. But not everyone is like that. I actually don't, there are some amazing designers who don't have an interior design degree and there are a lot of designers who are a much better designer than I am I am sure who don't have an interior design degree. I think it's just based off of how we learn and how much time we're putting in. And because I knew for me at that time, I had weighed all the options. And I said, if I wanna design the way I see other people designing. And if I wanna be able to do my own construction drawings and I wanna be able to know the history of interior design, I have to go to school for this. Because this is what is best for me. I only went back for my associates in interior design because they would not take my business school classes
Anastasia Casey 00:12:05 <laugh>
*slight overlap here when talking*
Anastasia Casey 00:12:07 Which we will get into.
Beth Diana Smith 00:12:09 Right. Like they wouldn't take those classes and said, well, so it took me four years going nights and weekends to just get an associate's degree in interior design. So I was like, I have to really commit to this because it was exhausting. Because weekends was like, I live in New Jersey. So at night I would get home at like, I try to be home by at least midnight and on the weekends I'm going back into the city, I'm coming back and I'm trying to get all my homework done for the week because I can't do it during the week. Because when I go back to my nine to five, I'm there way past five. Sometimes I don't leave work until like 11 at night because now I'm catching up and doing all these things. So it was a lot to manage. I remember being very tired and very cranky. So I don't think it's for everyone to do that. I was exhausted.
Anastasia Casey 00:13:10 Well <laugh> you may be the most impressive human being I've ever spoken to <laugh> cause I am like, wow, that is, that's not for me. That is not <laugh>. So that is just so amazing. And now you have finished the program and now you have this incredible thriving business. So I do have a couple more questions about school and then I promise we'll move on. But I know for a lot of designers, it is an internal struggle they have and that imposter syndrome fear creeps in when they're like I don't have this degree. How could I charge that? Who's gonna take me seriously? So I really appreciate all these insights you're sharing about what it was like to go through a program of a formal program. What do you feel like you learned in design school that you wouldn't have ever been able to figure out just on the job?
Beth Diana Smith 00:13:59 I would've never learned AutoCAD and that's a huge aspect of my business now. Like being able to do my own drawings is huge. I realize there are a lot of clients who view me as having also an interior design degree. It almost quote on quote elevates my status to them in their mind because they feel like, oh, she takes this seriously. The history of design that I learned, I feel like it would've taken me a lot more years to do that. Cause I'm not, I, the likelihood that I would've sat down and be like, Hey, from the Dawn of time, what happened in interior design and, and who did what and what are these styles and what were the ancient Romans doing? Like I wasn't gonna do that. You know? <laugh>
Anastasia Casey 00:15:01 How do you feel that learning that history of interior design has shaped the way you design?
Beth Diana Smith 00:15:13 I think the simplest example would be, I always tell my clients, like if they're talking to me about trends, I'm just like, we don't design based on that. We design based on what you loved, because a trend like the definition means it's something temporary and we are designing for something that will be in your life daily for an extensive period of time. So I wanna base your design off of who you are, how you wanna feel, how you wanna live and who you want to be tomorrow in five years from now, that's not a trend. You are a classic. And we are going to design based on that.
Beth Diana Smith 00:16:04 That's part of what school brought into me. I just learned so much and it gave me such an appreciation, which is why I think I became such an eclectic designer. Cause there's all these styles and all these things. And I think the history of design is really, really so interesting. Even with color, that color class, I don't think I would view and appreciate and approach color how I do and what I've been known for in my career if I hadn't taken that color class. I don't think I could have learned those things outside of school. What I've learned outside of school is built on that. But that became such a solid part of my foundation and things like lighting and kitchen and my start in kitchen and bath also started there. Like again, because my brain is very robotic and very technical. I feel like going to school made me the best possible designer that I am now. And sometimes I think about even going back for my bachelor's. I actually had this guy, I ran into the president of NYSID a couple weeks ago and I was telling him, I am thinking about going back for my Bachelor's but I don't know where that actual time would come from. So that doesn’t really seem feasible. But that would absolutely be something I would love to do if I had the bandwidth to do it.
Anastasia Casey 00:17:42 So you touched on it a little bit earlier. I'm sorry, they did not take your business classes. <laugh> I think that we can pretty universally say design school does not teach you how to run an interior design business. And I think that that is one of the pain points people feel, or those kind of shocks they feel after they do complete a program. And they're like, okay, I'm doing this now. And you're like, wait, this is so not everything that I learned. There's so much more to the job than what is taught. You obviously had a business background, so you were able to bridge that gap beautifully. Where do you advise people who didn't have a bachelor's and a mathematical and brilliant brain background to fill in those gaps? If they have gone the route of like, they went to school for interior design right away, they knew that that's what they wanted to do. And now they're looking to run this business, where do they fill in those gaps?
Beth Diana Smith 00:18:53 I would say the biggest resources are designer friends, designer Facebook groups, the amount of resources in there is incredible. And organizations like ASID that are basically built to teach you the business of design. I think those are incredibly incredibly important aspects. Something that even though I have this business background, I still, you know, talk to other designers. What are you doing? How are you doing this? Even with design to face group, Facebook groups, I don't comment often because if I comment I can go down the rabbit hole and then I feel like I gotta take all this time having these conversations. So I really don't, but I do read all the posts and I try to read all the comments and I'm like, oh, this is actually really interesting. This person is doing this because a lot of this, I mean, especially as technology changes in our industry, like, oh, what's that new program you found a faster way to do this or this happened? I feel like in Business of Home, I feel like it's an amazing resource and I read their newsletters religiously.
Anastasia Casey 00:20:11 Yeah. For those listening, I will ping Beth later and get a list of a couple of those Facebook groups if she's willing to share. And I'll include those in our show notes below for you. But that sounds fantastic. I know that's how I grew my business understanding when I first started IDCO and I'm sure it translates beautifully over to the interior design world. I also think that things are really changing in the interior design world. I think that things are starting to become more transparent if you're willing to work for that transparency. So we'll get into that as we talk about networking a little bit more. As we venture into you making this shift and going full time, what are three things about owning your own interior design business that you particularly love?
Beth Diana Smith 00:21:03 I love my freedom of doing things when I want to do it. I love that I can do whatever I want creatively. I feel like that's probably my number one. Like I don't have to get anyone else's feedback. What I am taking to the client this is it. And this is what I need you to do. And it's going to be amazing. I would say the third is there's a satisfaction of running your business successfully, where every day that you get up and there is money still in your bank accounts and your P and L is looking good. And your accountant says, he's proud of you. You should be greatly proud of yourself because it's not easy to own a business. I mean, because a lot of times you are all the roles. You are the accounting department, you are the marketing department, you are the social media, you are the legal department, you are admin, you are all these things. And even if you have a staff, you should still know all of those things. So I think there should be great pride in being able to run a successful business. I feel like that in itself is like, wow, gold star to you.
Anastasia Casey 00:22:37 What is your favorite difference from leaving your corporate role? Like the biggest? Does that just go back to like having your own schedule and being in charge of how and when things go?
Beth Diana Smith 00:22:50 I would say there's almost like a joy in putting forth all that hard work for your benefit, versus someone else's. Cause when I was in corporate, I worked a lot and I'm the first to say, I was a really hard worker and in corporate or when you work for someone, I don't care if you work for like, if you are, you know, the CFO versus like the manager at McDonald's, there are gonna be two types of bosses. The ones that show that they appreciate your hard work and then the other ones who make you feel like, nope, you gotta touch the cloth of Jesus for you to get this next step. And that's not a good feeling. So I feel like I enjoy putting forth that much effort for myself versus someone or a group of people who may not even appreciate that.
Anastasia Casey 00:24:02 I resonate with that so profoundly. When I started IDCO it was only because I was laid off, not even laid off, I was fired from a director of marketing position because I had received a job offer from someone else and I wanted to talk to my boss about it. They felt like I was being disloyal and they didn't want me there anymore. Then they called the person who offered me the job and got them to retract the offer. So in one day I went from having a job that I really loved to a job offer that sounded really exciting and was something I was considering to nothing. And I remember I called my dad before I even called my husband, as I walked out, like crying from this. And I was like, I just don't know if I can work for someone else again, because like they loved me there. I loved being there. And for someone else to have that kind of control over literally your livelihood and like every ounce of sweat you've put into it. I was like, I just don't know if I can do that <laugh> so I certainly feel that so much. And I'm glad you reminded me of how much that contributes to the joy of owning a business.
Beth Diana Smith 00:25:19 First, let me say, I'm so sorry that that happened to you. And I hope that that old boss and old company follows IDCO and I hope they feel like we, you know, did we fire the Beyonce of interior design marketing? And I hope that they feel terrible and that they know they messed up, but it also needed to happen because if they didn't where would your journey now be, you know? I utilize your services, you guys have done my website and like 5 million other random things that I've emailed you guys about. I've used your templates. I'm happy to do so. So thank you old company for firing the Beyonce of interior design marketing, cause it's totally our game as designers.
Anastasia Casey 00:26:18 Can I change my Instagram bio to that? And I'll just quote, you <laugh>
Beth Diana Smith 00:26:23 Feel free, feel free.
Anastasia Casey 00:26:26 I will say that I would never have had the courage that you had to leave your corporate job. Owning my own business was never in the agenda. That was never the plan. And being someone who's listening now, who's considering that jump. I applaud you because it was only out of necessity that this grew, and it was not a courage that I had to make that leap myself. And so listening to your story and how strategic you were about it and how thoughtful and intentional you were. I just think that that's an incredible journey that I can never say was mine.
Beth Diana Smith 00:27:07 Oh, I thank you. But trust me, it was never supposed to be the plan. I just felt like if I stay in corporate one more day, my head is gonna snap off my body. I have to go and I don't wanna go to another finance role. And I feel like I was at the end of my rope, and I feel like the universe kept on aligning things and I was just like, I get it. It's time to go.
Anastasia Casey 00:27:40 Did you already have clients or was it like you made that jump and you're like, okay, anybody wanna hire me? I'm here.
Beth Diana Smith 00:27:50 <laugh> Basically that, so I had, when I started design school, I had one client. Right. And it was a super small project, like teeny tiny didn't even know how to charge properly. Then when I started school, I realized that I couldn't take on any more clients. Cause I had, there was no more time left in the day. And then I never forget this was May of 2014. It was my last day at my corporate job was going to be May 8th. And I was planning on being a full time student, the fall of 2014, just so I can finish off my degree. I had like four or five classes left and I met a group of women, including Sheila Bridges on a rooftop. She put together this small group of women and Sheila referred my very first client once I was done with design school. We had everything set up and I told him I would start his project in January of 2015. That's how it started.
Anastasia Casey 00:29:12 Wow. Since making that jump, what are three things that have surprised you to be particularly challenging of having your own design business?
Beth Diana Smith 00:29:27 Oh, wow. Three things? I would say constantly feeling stretched like, oh my God, I have 5 billion things to do. Who's going to do them all when I want them to be done, and I always feel like that. <laugh> literally walking around with a planner in my bag. Then I would say, wow with running a design business, not suffering from imposter syndrome is difficult. I feel like the only people and I say this to friends all the time. I feel like the only people that don't suffer from imposter syndrome have to be sociopath and narcissist. I don't know how it's possible in the age of social media where you see, even though I, I consider social media to be like scripted reality. You see all these people doing all these amazing things and not feel at least once, even for a second, like, damn, am I not doing something right? Is there something more I could be doing? Wow, how are they doing that? I'm so impressed. Like imposter syndrome is a real thing. And I feel like it's normal and so easy. And the third thing I would say is making sure that I am not only working in my business, but that I'm consistently still working on my business and being able to bounce back and forth. I always find to be very, very challenging.
Anastasia Casey 00:31:13 I'm impressed. You came up with three. Thank you for doing that on the spot
Beth Diana Smith 00:31:17 Thank you.
Anastasia Casey 00:31:19 That said, two of those seemed to rely really around time management and like just getting all the things done. Can you talk us through what your firm looks like? What is the breakdown? Do you have contractors? Do you have any employees? Are you doing everything top to finish yourself? What is that structure?
Beth Diana Smith 00:31:40 Painfully, painfully right now, it's just me. I had an assistant and a girlfriend always says that I'm like 18 and a half people and I'm just like I might be, cause I don't know how it's possible. I'm getting everything done. I had an assistant that I let go at the beginning of last year and now I realize it gave me, I don't wanna say a fear, but like a fear. Am I gonna spend time training someone else? And I end up feeling like I wasted my time. Then I was getting myself ready at the end of last year. And then Kips Bay came up and I was like, I can't hire someone and train someone properly and give them my real attention and be riding around like a crazy person trying to juggle my projects with Kips Bay. So now I'm looking for a junior designer and what looks to be like an admin assistant type of role. And that's what I'm looking for now. And I'm looking for office space. So I am looking for all of these things and I'm just hoping that the universe again aligns in my favor and brings me like an amazing space and some amazing humans ASAP, and help me continue to grow my business and grow and help me complete my current projects.
Anastasia Casey 00:33:17 Really. I really appreciated what you just said about how you previously had had an assistant. And now you're looking for a junior designer and an administrative person. What I always try to coach our clients through and what we talk about at Design Camp and just something I have learned and made the mistake is that you hire someone cause you need a body and you're like, I just need someone else to help. And what I have found is that when you do so, a lot of your day is spent coming up with a to-do list for that person. When you are just hiring a person, you're just like, I need help. I need an assistant and you leave it pretty broad like that. It's always managing a to-do list that already lives in your head that you've already been figuring out and planning. And now it's about delegating that to-do list versus looking for these people to fill these specific roles that you are in the journey of right now is the absolute best way to go about it.
Anastasia Casey 00:34:17 You need someone who can completely take X, Y, and Z tasks off of your running to do list forever. And that's where I found the most growth at IDCO and where I found me finding time to take a breath in my day. When it wasn't about just, I have all these things to do today, can you take A, B and C? And it was like, you're always gonna be managing this. So I am excited for that change for you. I'm excited for, hopefully someone's listening to this and <laugh> they're like I have to work for her.
Beth Diana Smith 00:34:52 Send your resume. <laugh> <laugh>
Anastasia Casey 00:34:56 Because that is just such a sweet spot to have a team of three. And I just hope that you really appreciate that moment in time because it's somehow it's three and then suddenly there's 10 and it's a skill to be able to keep it small where you are still designing for your own brand.
Beth Diana Smith 00:35:16 Yes. That's perfectly put, thank you.
Anastasia Casey 00:35:20 I know a lot of designers feel guilty charging their first clients. Typically those are gonna be friends or family as they're building that portfolio. How did you handle it with your first clients?
Beth Diana Smith 00:35:33 Oh man. So with my very, very, very first clients and this would've been like pre design school. I don't think I charged friends anything. I think I just wanted to like, Hey, be my test case. You're my Guinea pig. Give me your feedback. And then my first client that wasn't like a friend or family member, I felt like, okay, I can start the charge for this. Oh my God. I'm embarrassed to say, so this was maybe like 2009, maybe 2010. And she wanted her living room redone, but she wanted to keep her furniture and I think I charged her maybe $350 because I didn't know any better. And I also thought, and this is probably terrible, but I also thought of it like play money because I'm making all this money at my corporate job. My side hustle was to be fun. I didn't take it seriously in that aspect.
Beth Diana Smith 00:36:44 And it was really again a place of ignorance. And through that experience, luckily that was my only client before I said I can't take anymore clients because I just don't have the time now with design school. I learned my hard lessons like Beth you're dumb. Cause when you calculate the amount of hours that you actually spent to complete this project, again, the amount of money that you spent, the amount of money that you charge, you paid yourself so below minimum wage, my mind was blown. I was like, how much was that like $2 an hour? Like what was that? Because there was all this time, but I would not have known that without the experience. And that time I also hadn't connected with any other designers yet. I didn't really get to know or meet other designers until 2011.
Annastasia Casey 00:37:50 Mm-hmm <affirmative>. That is a perfect segue. Cause I do want to talk about how you navigate. I mean, you're in a super competitive market. Like there is not a shortage of designers where you're at. And I also know that you have a great network of friends in the industry. It's really well known that everyone adores you and that everyone considers you a close personal friend. How did you begin to cultivate those relationships?
Beth Diana Smith 00:38:23 First I started attending events and I remember the first event that was impactful. This was, oh my God. It was May, May of 2008 was like May, 2011. Clearly like a lot happened that month. Kravet used to do this thing called Blog Fest and he did three of them and the very first year was 2011. I went and I met some really great people. And then I went back the next year and a lot of those same great people were there and then continued. So I started meeting them. Then I started meeting their friends and I learned, it's funny cause I hated networking when I was in corporate. But it taught me the importance of building genuine relationships. It taught me what I consider now to be my motto. Like I'm only going to network from a place of giving and never from receiving.
Beth Diana Smith 00:39:27 I don't need you to do anything for me, but I absolutely am like what do you need? How can I help you? And I feel like then the universe just pays me back cause then people are going to do the same for me without me having to ask. So, you know, meeting people, meeting people and always just attending like industry events and social media has also been great for that. So there's some people I consider like friends that I've actually probably never even met in person or I've only met a couple of couple of times.
Anastasia Casey 00:40:02 Totally. All my best friends came from Instagram.
Anastasia Casey 00:40:08 It’s just for me, it's so pivoted when I had my own business, like my best friends now all have their own businesses because it's just another level, like talking about business. I'm sure to any of my other friends is so annoying and they're so over it, which is why I had to like find my group of people who wanna talk business with me all day. Cause I love it so much. It's all I wanna talk about. And from creating those friendships, I've gotten to the place where I can be like, Hey, what are you charging for this? Or how did you navigate this? Or did you add this to your contract? Because I had this hiccup come up. And how did you navigate that? I'm also really interested in after attending those events, how do you maintain those relationships? Like you were able to create and cultivate those, but like how do you maintain those onward after you know, the magic and the warm fuzzy feelings of whatever that event is, is over? How do you continue it? <affirmative>
Beth Diana Smith 00:41:13 Now I would say I'm gonna call it like current times. <laugh> Cause current times is now like the world of social media, you know, following on social, staying engaged, commenting, DMing, text messaging. Sometimes it's like the simplest things where it's just, Hey, talking to my mind, just checking in hope all is well. Or if there's like something coming up, I'm like, Hey, are you going to this thing? Am I gonna see you there? Great. Let's meet there. Oh great. Let's do dinner after. It's like all those things. It's like making that conscious effort. But I mean, there are times like if I'm in a busy period, I may have to send proof of life because I will be quiet. I'm not checking in. I'm hoping that they would check on me. But it's not easy.
Beth Diana Smith 00:42:14 It really is like a very conscious effort to do that, to make sure that you are showing up in the places where you want to be seen and that you're taking it seriously about, it's almost like it's like dating the same way you have to. And this is something a designer friend says like you are basically dating your client. It's the same thing. Like I'm dating my designer friends. Like let's do dinner. Haven't seen you in a while. Let's catch up. Are you still alive? Send me proof of life. Like all these things and building those organic relationships and technically that's only the relationships that I want. I don't wanna force it if we're friends. Great. but I just feel like you just gotta be comfortable and organically yourself and then your tribe will find you and you'll find them.
Anastasia Casey 00:43:14 This is a kind of personal question. But would you say that you have a lot of friends outside of the industry? Like do you have to balance your work friends and your non-work friends? How has that shifted? Cause just as a business owner, there's only so much time in the day.
Beth Diana Smith 00:43:34 It's difficult. <laugh> I had a close friend say to me a couple months ago and she sent me a text. She said, look, I haven't seen your face. And if I don't see your face soon, we're gonna have a problem. And I said noted but then I was also traveling a lot back and forth to Florida for Kips. So I completely understood it because at this point I was like, I haven't seen my friends in what felt like a few months and that's abnormal for me. So it's not easy. But for my real friendships, I know that it will be a two race street and they'll send me a text like that and I'll take offense. I'm like girl, you're right. When I come back on this date, let's make a date, I'll bring the wine.
Beth Diana Smith 00:44:27 and that's what I try to do, but it's a constant kind of give and take. I'm trying to be better now that I'm dedicating more of my weekend. Like Beth, you're not allowed to work, not allowed to work more than like 10 or 20% of the day. You're gonna dedicate that time to make dates with friends. You're gonna make time to make a date with yourself and do the things that you wanna do. So sometimes for me lately, it's me and a glass of wine and a puzzle. And that's like my Zen time for myself because I need that. I need my me time. But it's not easy and I don't want anyone to think that it is because we're all trying to still figure that out.
Anastasia Casey 00:45:16 I wanna be super conscientious of your time. So I've got two more questions for you. One, I love, love, love your office reveal. It was such a creative, amazing, beautiful space. And I'm curious, is there a favorite thing you have in that space?
Beth Diana Smith 00:45:33 Ooh. Well first thank you. I don’t know if I have a favorite thing, that's a hard question. I would say that I love that I decided to wallpaper the office. It just makes me so happy every time I walk in here. I love that I did a gallery wall because I love art and I'm just a maximalist. Like it just makes me so happy to see those things. So I would say it would be those two. I can't really narrow down the one
Anastasia Casey 00:46:14 <laugh> I'm gonna tell you my favorite thing. My favorite thing in your office. I love the gallery wall, but what I really love is that you freaking hung your degrees. You framed them, they're up and they're there. And I love that because it is such a fundamental part of you. And I feel like in design people kind of strip some of those things away cause it's not traditionally pretty and I love that you kept that and it just looks so amazing. I just think you're so impressive and such a badass.
Beth Diana Smith 00:46:48 Oh thank you. That actually makes me so happy. Cause they had been sitting, I have a little safe where I keep important documents. They had been sitting in that safe for probably a few years at least. I'm like, no, you have to go up because one for my bachelor's and my master's, I still owe student loans. So I'm gonna hang these degrees. And for that luckily all got paid for. I'm just really proud of that accomplishment and being able to navigate that. And I feel like we need a reminder of all the things that we've accomplished. So I'm like, you could just be part of the wall. I'm gonna frame you pretty. It was like a DIY frame job and I'm gonna frame you pretty and you're going into this gallery wall and thank you. That makes me happy. <laugh>
Anastasia Casey 00:47:42 Lastly, as we're talking and those listening are possibly considering about making the actual jump to go full time to like really say I'm making this a business, it's not just a hobby. What would you like to say to those who are not currently feeling fulfilled in their present careers?
Beth Diana Smith 00:48:07 Oh wow. I feel like that's a big question and a tough question. What I can say is if you're not being fulfilled in your current career, my first question would be to figure out the why. Because there is a reason why there is an entire Reddit thread dedicated to terrible companies and terrible bosses. Are you not being fulfilled because you are now in that Reddit thread, versus you not loving what you do because it's too very, very, very different things. Because technically I still love finance and accounting and I still do those parts of my business. Cause I, sorry, I'm a girl that enjoys an Excel spreadsheet. I like doing a formula. I wanna go and I wanna look at my P and L, I wanna figure out the strategy for my business, how to best maximize not only my company's budget, but my clients.
Beth Diana Smith 00:49:15 So I still like that. I just wanted to figure out a different way and be able to build upon it. Now that I discover this other part of my brain. So I would say make your list of pros and cons. Why I don't feel fulfilled because if it's because you think that if you change careers it's going to fix what the issue is. I feel like that may be some denial. It could be just you're looking to find something new and then you think the grass may be green on the other side, but the interior design grass is not greener. It's just different grass,
Anastasia casey 00:49:58 Just different grass. Right? That is so well said. You are so wise. I I'm gonna like start sending you invitations to be on a podcast every week, just so you can coach me through my life
Beth Diana Smith 00:50:07 <laugh> The Beyonce of marketing does not need live coaching <laugh>
Anastasia Casey 00:50:16 Well, Beth, this was such an immense pleasure. It was so nice to chat with you face to face. I will have everything we covered in today's show in the show notes as well as pictures from Beth’s beautiful portfolio. You can follow her on Instagram and also view her website at the links below. Thank you so much for joining us today. And I hope to run into you soon. I'm gonna be in New York a few times this summer, so I'm hoping we can line it up.
Beth Diana Smith 00:50:43 Oh please, please, please. I would love that.
Anastasia Casey 00:50:45 Well, thank you so much and we will talk soon.
Beth Diana Smith 00:50:48 Bye everyone.
Anastasia Casey 00:50:50 If you weren't able to write down everything you heard today, you can find all the links, projects, and images we referenced and other details from this episode of The Interior Collective on our website at idco.studio/podcast. Be sure to follow along on Instagram and subscribe to our newsletters. Stay up to date on what we're talking about next week. If you love our podcast, please leave us a review. If you have questions or topics you'd like to hear next, go ahead and email me at hi@theinterior.co again, that is hi@theinterior.co
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